On three note chords, I don’t think they are too bad if they are added in a way that doesn’t require you to mangle your fingers to get to them.
For instance if you were already playing a green note, and then a three note chord is added that is green/red/blue – this isn’t too bad. Or if you were already playing green/red.
Or if you are playing green/red/blue and the next three note chord if red/yellow/orange.
See the RB1 chart for Cherub Rock for a good example of three note chords.
See the chart for Bang a Gong as an example of how NOT to use three note chords. Also the chart for Before I Forget in GH3 is another example of bad three note chord charting.
You know that Reaper has a MacOSX version right? And that we have people using it for RBN just fine? (You will still need to use Windows to run Magma, because we use Games For Windows to transfer to the Xbox)
So I just watched the rest of it. Great blog! Everyone here at RBN is sitting on the edge of our seats waiting for the next episode.
I’m really happy that the docs were enough for you guys to figure out Reaper and the authoring process. We’ve been working pretty hard on them because creating a song is a big hill to climb, and we want to try and make it as easy as possible. And the payoff is pretty cool, IMHO.
When we author drums, we actually DO try and author every drum hit when we create the expert track, unless it’s crazy death metal double bass thing. I haven’t heard your track, but that’s what we aim for, at any rate.
Posting on the forums at creators.rockband.com about authoring questions will also get you some good feedback if you have other, more specific issues.
Thanks so much Matthew! I’ll definitely re-evaluate the drums with your comments in mind. The documents and the creators.rockband.com site have been a great resource!
You also bring up a good point re: Reaper. There is an OSX version, but to my knowledge the RBN plug-in was only available for Windows (or at least it seemed to be the case when we were initially downloading the tools). I think that’s why we decided to get on top of a Windows solution for everything.
Thanks again – and to Kelly for your feedback as well!
I found the blog yesterday, what a great resource for people not able to chart yet!
Nothing wrong with three note chords, unless of course you can’t play them Seriously, as long as the charting is representative of the music, it’s all good.
We have an installer for OSX (similiar to the installer for Windows…it’s essentailly just a php script that sticks the files in the right folders), but it’s funky and doesn’t always work. I can certainly forward you all the instructions for setting up your OSX Reaper build. It’s a bit of a pain, but it’s not hard (just making sure all the preferences are set right, and so forth).
And we DO have a preview window plugin for OSX, which you can install too!
Post on the creators.rockband.com forums and I’ll be able to help you out.
Expert drum parts that have hits audibly missing are confusing to me. But I’m pretty sure there are times when a light snare tap that’s doubling a cymbal crash is left out and I’d never notice, things like that.
Good examples of guitar songs: pretty much any Foo Fighters song. For whatever reason, those are uniformly really fun to play. “Learn to Fly” is a nice one for pointing out what “feels” like the right part to play in the game; if there’s a melody riff, it’s obvious, but if there’s a rhythm figure -and- a smaller but more interesting bit, the game has a way of focusing the player on the part that ‘moves’ most, and I think it could do that even without the subtle increase in volume that usually results from tracking things out into specific parcels.
I find playing on Hard or Expert to be easier, because I play guitar, and therefore have come to expect to be doing something with my fingers for every significant sound I hear. My non-musical friends take to some Medium tracks really well, and struggle with others.
For me, really good Easy or Medium tracks are those which point the player at the rhythm of the most important guitar figures, while not trying to imitate them. At its best, the game has non-musicians thinking more like musicians, and anticipating the moves for upcoming parts. That’s really fun for new people, and fun for experienced people to see. So I worry a little that by leaving Medium for last, it might turn out to be harder to play (as well as harder to program) than Hard.
Maybe you could beta-test on someone who knows the song, but isn’t a big RB player?
I was going to come in and comment about the drums but it looks like someone has already.The main reason for using seperated master tracks is so the chart maker can hear all parts correctly.For Expert drums you are supposed to author every hit for every drum.Unless it’s a crazy two footed double bass pedal part of course.If you are having trouble figuring out what to chart…Bring you’re drummer over and have him help you out,I’m sure he knows what he’s hitting.
Good luck and I can’t wait to try out you’re songs on the RBN!
First of all, this blog is a great idea and a great resource, and not just for musicians and programmers/authors. I am but a simple music-lover and RB player, and I have found it quite interesting. I also really dig the sound of your band, and I’m excited to see how the charts turn out on RBN.
As for the questions [I am an Expert-level guitarist/bassist and Hard Drummer, occasionally vocalist]:
My favorite charts are those with a lot of variety…so single notes up and down the fretboard, hammer-ons and pull-offs, some chords, and good balance. My favorite tracks to play on the RB2 disc are probably Alive, Carry On Wayward Son, Shooting Star, Alex Chilton, Lazy Eye. All have good balance and are challenging without being frustrating. What I find frustrating are chord playing/chord changes that seem intentionally designed (in the RB code, not the music itself) to frustrate you – for example, Lump, One Step Closer, Pinball Wizard. Chords (even 3-note chords) don’t have to be frustrating to play, but it’s a fine line between a good challenge and a throw-your-guitar-in-disgust experience. So yeah, what I would emphasize in guitar/bass charting is just trying to find that balance. Part of it will of course depend on the song itself – some songs are just going to be easy (or hard), but making them fun in either case is the key. And of course this is true in different ways from Expert all the way down to Easy.
September 3rd, 2009
I’m really enjoying this video blog.
On three note chords, I don’t think they are too bad if they are added in a way that doesn’t require you to mangle your fingers to get to them.
For instance if you were already playing a green note, and then a three note chord is added that is green/red/blue – this isn’t too bad. Or if you were already playing green/red.
Or if you are playing green/red/blue and the next three note chord if red/yellow/orange.
See the RB1 chart for Cherub Rock for a good example of three note chords.
See the chart for Bang a Gong as an example of how NOT to use three note chords. Also the chart for Before I Forget in GH3 is another example of bad three note chord charting.
September 3rd, 2009
You know that Reaper has a MacOSX version right? And that we have people using it for RBN just fine? (You will still need to use Windows to run Magma, because we use Games For Windows to transfer to the Xbox)
September 3rd, 2009
So I just watched the rest of it. Great blog! Everyone here at RBN is sitting on the edge of our seats waiting for the next episode.
I’m really happy that the docs were enough for you guys to figure out Reaper and the authoring process. We’ve been working pretty hard on them because creating a song is a big hill to climb, and we want to try and make it as easy as possible. And the payoff is pretty cool, IMHO.
When we author drums, we actually DO try and author every drum hit when we create the expert track, unless it’s crazy death metal double bass thing. I haven’t heard your track, but that’s what we aim for, at any rate.
Posting on the forums at creators.rockband.com about authoring questions will also get you some good feedback if you have other, more specific issues.
Thanks so much for creating this!
September 4th, 2009
Thanks so much Matthew! I’ll definitely re-evaluate the drums with your comments in mind. The documents and the creators.rockband.com site have been a great resource!
You also bring up a good point re: Reaper. There is an OSX version, but to my knowledge the RBN plug-in was only available for Windows (or at least it seemed to be the case when we were initially downloading the tools). I think that’s why we decided to get on top of a Windows solution for everything.
Thanks again – and to Kelly for your feedback as well!
-Tia
September 4th, 2009
I found the blog yesterday, what a great resource for people not able to chart yet!
Nothing wrong with three note chords, unless of course you can’t play them
Seriously, as long as the charting is representative of the music, it’s all good.
Keep it up, waiting for the next installment.
September 4th, 2009
We have an installer for OSX (similiar to the installer for Windows…it’s essentailly just a php script that sticks the files in the right folders), but it’s funky and doesn’t always work. I can certainly forward you all the instructions for setting up your OSX Reaper build. It’s a bit of a pain, but it’s not hard (just making sure all the preferences are set right, and so forth).
And we DO have a preview window plugin for OSX, which you can install too!
Post on the creators.rockband.com forums and I’ll be able to help you out.
September 6th, 2009
Expert drum parts that have hits audibly missing are confusing to me. But I’m pretty sure there are times when a light snare tap that’s doubling a cymbal crash is left out and I’d never notice, things like that.
September 12th, 2009
Good examples of guitar songs: pretty much any Foo Fighters song. For whatever reason, those are uniformly really fun to play. “Learn to Fly” is a nice one for pointing out what “feels” like the right part to play in the game; if there’s a melody riff, it’s obvious, but if there’s a rhythm figure -and- a smaller but more interesting bit, the game has a way of focusing the player on the part that ‘moves’ most, and I think it could do that even without the subtle increase in volume that usually results from tracking things out into specific parcels.
I find playing on Hard or Expert to be easier, because I play guitar, and therefore have come to expect to be doing something with my fingers for every significant sound I hear. My non-musical friends take to some Medium tracks really well, and struggle with others.
For me, really good Easy or Medium tracks are those which point the player at the rhythm of the most important guitar figures, while not trying to imitate them. At its best, the game has non-musicians thinking more like musicians, and anticipating the moves for upcoming parts. That’s really fun for new people, and fun for experienced people to see. So I worry a little that by leaving Medium for last, it might turn out to be harder to play (as well as harder to program) than Hard.
Maybe you could beta-test on someone who knows the song, but isn’t a big RB player?
September 15th, 2009
I was going to come in and comment about the drums but it looks like someone has already.The main reason for using seperated master tracks is so the chart maker can hear all parts correctly.For Expert drums you are supposed to author every hit for every drum.Unless it’s a crazy two footed double bass pedal part of course.If you are having trouble figuring out what to chart…Bring you’re drummer over and have him help you out,I’m sure he knows what he’s hitting.
Good luck and I can’t wait to try out you’re songs on the RBN!
September 22nd, 2009
probably a very simple question: how do you get the preview window to show up in reaper (i have the RBN extensions installed)
October 3rd, 2009
First of all, this blog is a great idea and a great resource, and not just for musicians and programmers/authors. I am but a simple music-lover and RB player, and I have found it quite interesting. I also really dig the sound of your band, and I’m excited to see how the charts turn out on RBN.
As for the questions [I am an Expert-level guitarist/bassist and Hard Drummer, occasionally vocalist]:
My favorite charts are those with a lot of variety…so single notes up and down the fretboard, hammer-ons and pull-offs, some chords, and good balance. My favorite tracks to play on the RB2 disc are probably Alive, Carry On Wayward Son, Shooting Star, Alex Chilton, Lazy Eye. All have good balance and are challenging without being frustrating. What I find frustrating are chord playing/chord changes that seem intentionally designed (in the RB code, not the music itself) to frustrate you – for example, Lump, One Step Closer, Pinball Wizard. Chords (even 3-note chords) don’t have to be frustrating to play, but it’s a fine line between a good challenge and a throw-your-guitar-in-disgust experience. So yeah, what I would emphasize in guitar/bass charting is just trying to find that balance. Part of it will of course depend on the song itself – some songs are just going to be easy (or hard), but making them fun in either case is the key. And of course this is true in different ways from Expert all the way down to Easy.
Looking forward to the next video!
November 12th, 2009
Hope you guys didn’t give up on this, I’m looking forward to the next video.